Call us for a FREE Consultation! (818) 254-8413. The car starts violently vibrating, so much to the point that she had to pull over to the side of the road. Learn how to navigate California's consumer protections against deceptive car dealerships. Jun 11, 2024 · Here are the steps: File the small claims lawsuit. Before you submit a dispute to us, firstly please ensure you have taken a look at the information about our process on the resolve a dispute page. Drivers are expected to keep their vehicle under control at all times. My car then it another vehicle that was behind it. Yes, you can sue car manufacturers for defective parts, including engines that don't work right. Have you seen any doctor or therapist who could confirm the degree of your distress? Perhaps contacting the dealership, advising you are considering either Jun 10, 2024 · If a car dealer tricked you into buying a defective vehicle or one that didn’t match their promises, you may have strong legal grounds to recover your losses. I called the title department back and one of the agents realized the title application was NEVER sent in from 8/1/2015. Faulty mechanical work. Failure to Disclose. Jun 16, 2021 · This dealership has a service department with a technician that checks all the vehicles before sale. Jacob T. But, you will have to prove that the reason for the problem was their acts or omissions. (513) 334-4107. There needs to be some fact investigation, but it sounds like you have a case. I would be happy to provide a free initial consultation. E. Also, you should consider suing the driver and the owner of the accident vehicle. Leaking hose or other replacement part. Safety defects such as airbags failing to deploy or seatbelts malfunctioning during accidents. For additional information contact the main Auto Industry Division’s consumer complaint section: (303) 866-2532 or e-mail your question to: dor_dealers@state. Feb 19, 2024 · 1. Jan 12, 2023 · Under these circumstances, the dealer and manufacturer are required to repair and cover any defects in the car. If the vehicle cannot be repaired—or it remains with the dealer for a total of 30 days during the Lemon Law period—you have the right to demand a refund or a replacement vehicle. Although state law varies, you generally need to establish the following: Note that there is a difference between fraud and misrepresentation. Refusing Valid Returns. Find the best ones near you. Well as the trip progressed the car started making this awful sound that kept getting worse and worse. Jun 27, 2008 · When you sue you don't get to sue for a new engine when your engine had mileage on it. And sometimes that means they will tell you what you want to hear to make it happen. Suing a car dealership in Ontario is a complex process, but it’s essential to protect your rights and seek redress when you believe you’ve been treated unfairly. Klisz is correct - there is a Motor Vehicle Service and Repair Act that allows you to bring a claim against the dealer for the negligent repair. John Foy & Associates can help. We took the car to the shop and was told it was the main computer and was safe to drive until the new one came in 6 weeks later only to find out by the owner of the dealership if we would have gotten into a wreck that none of the safety features would have worked therefore putting our lives in danger the Mar 3, 2017 · We talked at length about Binding Arbitration Clauses and why you should reject them HERE . Basically, an Arbitration Clause prohibits you from suing the bank or a car dealership in court and forces you to have a non-judiciary proceeding before some random person who isn’t a judge or a jury. There are several reasons you might consider taking legal action against a car dealership. Mar 1, 2011 · The answer of how to s ue a car dealership can take up an entire novel so the best I can do is break it down, piece by piece, to as to understand the complex nature of this litigation. If this negligence occurs, you may be able to hold the mechanic or business liable. Initially it is tough to determine the answer to Apr 10, 2023 · Fact-Checked. com Jan 16, 2024 · If your dealership outright lies to you, you may be able to sue for common law fraud. Hiding damage or defects in a used car, misrepresenting the history and Sometimes an employer can be held legally responsible for an employee's negligence, including negligently driving a company or personal auto. Almost surely, the used car dealer will testify that he or she had no way of knowing how long Feb 24, 2012 · 2 attorney answers. Morgan & Morgan's attorneys reached a $44 million settlement in a class-action lawsuit against Monier, an organization that made false claims about their faulty roofing tile products. •••. INSURANCE. Let them fix it and apologize. How Courts Calculate Fair Remedies. Yes, you can sue a car maintenance shop like Valvoline or Jiffy Lube if you can show they performed car repair service in a negligent way and that you suffered direct and foreseeable losses as a result. In one of the first personal injury trials since the end of the Pandemic, Morgan & Morgan recovered $120 million for a client that was paralyzed by a city utility vehicle. For a FREE consultation with one of our experienced and compassionate attorneys, call us at 404-400-4000 or fill out You have a right to file a lawsuit if the mechanic refuses to fix the issues that arose from the original repair. Bring all the letters you have written or received about your car problem, any written warranty, photographs if they are helpful, and your used parts if they aid in making your case. How DAS Law can help you. The first thing you need to understand is 1) whether there is insurance and 2) the type of coverage. Ernest, 195 Ga. 4. You will not sue the heads of the organization because it is a separate legal entity Apr 12, 2024 · Here's How To File A Lemon Law Claim!If the car dealer is responsible for damaging your car or not maintaining it, you can sue for negligence, if they didn't repair your car properly or used a defective part and lack transparency, you have grounds to sue the car dealer. I took the car for its first little trip which was only 2 hours away. As far as suing the dealership--if you died, you'd have a great case. Suit is only really needed if they do not own up to them like this dealership appears to be doing. Both state and federal laws contain auto dealer fraud provisions intended to punish dealerships that lie to their customers. Maintaining control of the car. In order to pursue legal action, you will need to provide evidence of the misdiagnosis and the resulting damages. Auto Dealer Fraud includes a wide variety of fraudulent, unfair, and deceptive business practices and Dealership Scams. If you find yourself in a situation where you believe a car dealership has acted unlawfully or breached their contractual obligations, you may have legal recourse to seek compensation or other remedies. Contact them, and see what they say. Where You Need a Lawyer: Zip Code or City: Chicago, IL 60290. Auto repair shops can be held liable if their work caused your accident. Customer. September 27, 2023. For example, in the cases of faulty airbags, there have been class action lawsuits against both the car and airbag manufacturers. An automotive service business or car dealership may be liable for faulty repairs or maintenance. Jan 20, 2021 · But, if they do it--great, gram your car and run/drive away from that dealership as fast as the law allows you. And if your car repair goes wrong, the dealership may be liable for re-repair or damages. Posted on Oct 25, 2018. Only if they still refuse to make it right at that point is it worth your effort to sue. Generally speaking, people going about their daily business owe a duty of reasonable care to each other. If you have been wronged and have been economically harmed, you can sue in small claims court as long as your claim is less than $10,000. *Punitive damages often apply. Apr 21, 2021 · If the auto dealer you are accusing of misrepresentation is a sole proprietorship, you should file the lawsuit against the owner. May 2, 2024 · The type of issue that is considered a defective car repair depends on the circumstances of the case and the make and model of the car involved. Yes. We accept Auto Oct 12, 2023 · Suing a car dealership in the UK can be a complex legal process. Bad Repairs. Mar 21, 2019 · Many warranties require any car repairs to be done by the dealership that sold the car. Legally, you are protected by consumer law and can decide to file a lawsuit whether the lying was regarding a new or used vehicle. Some especially serious automotive defective product cases may lead to a class action lawsuit, or a recall of the defective motor vehicle or part. Buying a car with frame damage might save you money in the short term, but it’s a long-term gamble with your finances and safety. Companies make mistakes. Suing for a car fire requires you to file a product liability lawsuit, which can be difficult to win unless you hire an experienced team of product liability attorneys. Mr. Jan 11, 2021 · Mechanic repair lawsuits refer to a large umbrella of cases that involve issues regarding vehicle repairs and mechanics or automobile repair shops. They alleged that she “brought her car to appellant for servicing, including an oil change. The Bureau of Automotive Repairs charges the fees in parenthesis. If repair issues led to an accident, you need a good car accident lawyer. Lack of disclosure by the dealer that the vehicle has defects or has been in accidents. 6 days ago · Considering legal action against a car dealership for negligence? Learn why seeking legal counsel is crucial. A question on everyone’s mind when taking their car in for service is whether you can sue a mechanic or auto shop for negligence if the “fix” damages your car rather than repairs it. For a free legal consultation, call (646) 692-0204. City of Gainesville D/B/A Gainesville Regional Utilities. A local attorney in New York would be able to help a person with a lawsuit at this time. Feb 13, 2014 · Yes, you could sue for various things, including negligence and loss of use. The service cost $300 & $300 time off work. Jul 9, 2021 · In order to sue a car dealership for misrepresentation, the individual must show: The car dealer omitted or misrepresented material facts regarding the vehicle; The individual suffered a financial loss as a result; and. Often, the government or the manufacturer itself might be a step ahead of you. Contact an automobile attorney for a consultation. In Jan 4, 2022 · If you can prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the auto dealer lied, you can even collect court costs and attorney fees from the dealer as a way of punishing him/her for the shameful conduct. We have more than 20 years of experience working with car accident victims, and we’re always on the side of the victim. Call or visit the dealer, show them your evidence, and explain what you want to happen as a result. Monier Lifetile, LLC. Note, if you are a sole proprietor, you count as an individual. The process of suing a corporation is a bit different. that contribute to accidents and injuries. New York, NY 10007. 5 Suing for Negligence: A Viable Option. Fact-Checked. Small claims courts, designed to provide a fast, efficient and inexpensive way to resolve claims of Apr 1, 2024 · A person would allege negligence and seek compensatory damages. A person whose name is on the certificate of title as an owner or co-owner is a beneficial owner with the right to control the vehicle. Message View Profile. See full list on calilemonlawyers. Maintenance and proper use of vehicle equipment. Prepare the small claims subpoena. In June 2021 Jan 8, 2024 · Legally Reviewed. Proving financial loss is easier if you had to pay for repairs that the dealer is legally responsible for. I don't know how you will do that, unless the tech is willing to admit that he did not put oil in the car. Car dealerships want you to buy their cars. Inventing false features. Another reason might be false advertising or car dealer fraud. "Willful" is a legal term of art and does not mean Rather than outright suing a car dealership or manufacturer for a problematic vehicle, the best thing to do is to use Florida’s Lemon Law to your advantage. Free Consultation. If you want to sue the dealer for negligence, you must prove that he/she failed to act responsibly and that this failure cost you money. App. Those losses would include at least your out-of-pocket costs and, depending on where you live and if there were Apr 11, 2022 · Yes, you can sue, but if they already fixed your car, you get nothing for the suit. You do not need to have an attorney to sue in small claims court. Jul 27, 2020 · You can sue a car dealership for bad service if your vehicle is defective and have problems under warranty that the dealership repair shop is unable to properly repair or replace with a reasonable number of repair attempts or consecutive days. We got the car towed to a different mechanic (one we trust), and his diagnosis was that there was no transmission fluid in the car and that the transmission was shot. Apr 24, 2019 · Before You Sue. The Motor Ombudsman is a certified Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR) provider who can assist with disputes that arise between consumers and Code-accredited businesses. The individual would not have purchased the vehicle if they were aware of the material facts at issue. Then move on down the road; literally. It is important to understand the process involved in suing a car dealership Sep 13, 2023 · Defective Mechanic Work Lawsuits. Feb 28, 2018 · February 28, 2018. Mar 11, 2024 · In California, you can sue a car dealership or private seller for a maximum of $12,500 if you are an individual. McAdams v. 1. If they discover a problem with the car engine or other part of the vehicle's design, they'll do a safety recall voluntarily. Contact a personal injury lawyer in South Florida immediately. Feb 2, 2024 · Suing a Car Dealership for Negligence When purchasing a car from a dealership, it is expected that they will act with a reasonable standard of care towards the buyer. A lawyer with experience will be the best to go over your options. In New York, all of your rights in auto repair are outlined by the New York State (NYS) Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). The types of lies or misrepresentations a dealer could make that you could sue for would be: Falsifying financial terms. Failure to do so can constitute negligence. Arbitration Clauses are really bad for consumers Jan 30, 2015 · Service cost approx $200, and cost $600 time off work for 2 people (I needed someone to follow me to the dealership). Car did not start, added oil car started 10 minutes later, took the car in for the oil leak they caused, whiched they acknowledged and fixed but broke a water pump and caused a coolant leak. Legal Consult Recommended. Our experienced team of dispute resolution lawyers can provide you with practical legal advice and representation if you’ve bought a car or paid for servicing that is not fit for purpose. the dealer is legally responsible for your damages. Dec 5, 2019 · 2. Common types of defective mechanical work may include: • Forgetting to reattach auto components. For partnerships, you should sue all the partners who own the business. • Failing to sufficiently repair broken or worn parts. In the language of the law, the employer is vicariously liable Dec 3, 2019 · To be able to successfully resolve your issue with the dealership, you need to make sure you are being very clear about what the problem is and what outcome you are looking for. The third incident was an oil change, but within 7 days the car died & had to be towed. Posted on Jul 9, 2013. In most states, you can't actually sue a car dealer without first talking to them and giving them an opportunity to resolve the problem. Apr 21, 2024 · It took about 10 minutes along the freeway for police to figure out the mistake. 291 Broadway 6th Floor. Before you sue, you probably should add up all of the damages you can prove and send a demand letter to the dealership by Jan 13, 2024 · This knowledge can help you effectively advocate for fair remedies in your car dealership negligence claims. Website. Understanding the legal framework, common issues, and the steps involved in pursuing a lawsuit is crucial for consumers facing disputes with dealerships. She also had our toddler in the car at the time. Chicago Heights, IL 60411. If you believe that a dealership has failed to properly diagnose a problem with your vehicle, resulting in damage or additional repair costs, you may have grounds for a lawsuit. . Sep 27, 2023 · Contact us or call us at 1- (877)-421-9759 today for a free consultation. If the frame damage was reported, the vehicle may still be safe to drive. The dealer may, however, demand an “offset” to Do not mention lawsuits, lawyers, etc. Before you can sue, you must contact the dealership, express your concerns, and give them the opportunity to correct the problem. May 10, 2017 · You can sue the auto dealership for negligence regarding the lug nuts and the bolt. In California, if you have relied upon a false claim in purchasing a faulty vehicle, you may have a claim against the auto dealer. Levon Clark, Ricardo Williams, Marty Grifka and Derek Pak. Fraud requires the dealer to know at the time they make a representation that it is false. Document interactions, gather evidence, review lemon laws, and consult a consumer protection attorney for a strong case. $120 Million. When you bring your car into an auto shop for a repair, you expect the mechanic to address the issue, not make it worse or cause additional damage. Submit a dispute. If the dealership refuses to do required work under the warranty, or the repair work was bad and caused an accident, you may have a legal claim against the dealership. Consumer Protection Lawyer: Matthew. Suing car dealership for negligence is possible when the repairs are not covered even after buying a car warranty. These are some of the possible outcomes we can achieve for you: Seeking a repair. The second incident they forgot the antifreeze clamp, so the car died and had to be towed. The first thing to do is to make sure that defect impacts vehicle safety, use or value. Was driving the freeway a majority of the trip there and back. Seek a replacement vehicle. You may be able to sue the car dealership, because apparently the driver was working at the time. Hiding accident history. You need to contact a local attorney to represent your interests. If you have a witness to oral statements made by the garage, be sure to bring that person with you to court. For those types of cases, you should speak to a car accident lawyer and make it clear you suspect a bad repair or negligent auto mechanic caused the problem. These laws make deception and unfair Dec 30, 2023 · Examples of Fraud or Deception at a Dealership. But, since you did not die, nope. These include failure to disclose material factors or blatant misrepresentation. By using the rights and May 8, 2018 · Based on the information you have shared I would suggest suing the dealership In Small Claims Court. California customers also have the protection of lemon laws After inspecting they found a leak in my oil filter housing gasket. Rodgers v. Federal and state consumer protection laws are in place to protect consumers from unfair or deceptive business practices, which brings us to the most common reason consumers may consider suing their dealership. co. Can I sue a car dealer for negligence and stress I had taken my jeep to the dealership I bought it and they caused an oil leak which let the engine go dry. Jan 7, 2015 · Yes. Jul 31, 2023 · Yes, you can sue a dealership for misdiagnosis. I think you need to retain a local consumer lawyer to help you with this. Vehicle Defects. Most, like us, offer free consultations. Sep 4, 2023 · Yes, you absolutely can sue a car dealership if you live in California. I bring back my car let them know what's going on and tell them my warranty expires at 85,000 miles. It should look something like the three examples at the top of this article. I just took it to my local dealership, and found out that oil is leaking into the wiring harness (very easy to spot, just unplug a connection and oil is everywhere). To view or print any of the forms listed on this page, you will need a free copy of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Nov 17, 2016 · If your car ends up with more damage after a trip to the mechanic, you likely have questions regarding the mechanic’s skills, ability, and negligent behavior. You may also want to file a VS-35 with the Department of Motor Vehicles to complain about the repairs. Understandable. Jan 28, 2024 · I just bought a used 2013 dodge challenger from a dealership less than 2 days ago. Note that the employer isn't being blamed for its own negligence. If they refuse to make it right, escalate to the dealership management and/or dealership owner. If you have purchased a “lemon” — a vehicle that has undergone a qualifying Best of luck to you. Negligence may be inferred if a car loses control (by overturning or leaving the roadway) for any reason. One of the most common is due to a breach of contract. Jan 6, 2023 · These reasons don't include personal injury claims, like a faulty car causing an auto accident, other injuries, or wrongful death. Oct 25, 2018 · 9 year Top Contributor. Feb 19, 2024 · There are several situations that provide valid reasons to sue a car company: 1. Some common examples of defective car repairs may include: Improper wiring jobs. However, if a car dealership fails to meet this standard and their actions or inactions fall below what a reasonable person would have done, it may be possible to sue them for Nov 23, 2015 · I called the DMV directly in November and they informed me they had no record of the title application for my new car. In conclusion, there are numerous instances where car dealers don’t honor the contract terms on the purchase of a vehicle. The defect must be reported within 24 months of the date you took delivery of the vehicle. Installing faulty or defective parts like airbags, seatbelts, tires, brakes etc. This second point is often harder to prove. Such negligence results in accidents, and causes damage and injuries. Discover your rights, grounds for lawsuits, and how to seek compensation with an experienced consumer law attorney. Instead, the employer must answer for the careless driving of its employee. The dealerships employee who is a registered sexual predator and the employer was aware of his background, made several aggressive and inappropriate sexual Nov 17, 2021 · To sue a car dealership for negligence, you need to prove that the dealer’s actions caused you monetary loss. You have a claim against the dealership for breach of warranty, but this is not a negligence issue. [3] To successfully sue a used car dealer, you must be able to prove that: you suffered a financial loss (this is not hard if you had to pay for repairs), and. The dealer does not honor the warranty after you purchase a car. Generally, there are two kinds of claims: fraudulent and negligent. I was told that the car was checked and is ok. 5. May 12, 2018 · Can I sue a car dealer for negligence? Avvo has 97% of all lawyers in the US. Jun 16, 2014 · The dealership put the car in the car wash and did not lock it into place and left the driver's door open. Bait-and-switch advertising tactics. People make mistakes. Major damage to a vehicle’s unibody frame can be repaired, but it will never be as Our consumer protection practice focuses on Auto Dealer Fraud and obtaining justice for consumers who have suffered a loss due to a dealer's or salesman's failure to be truthful and honest when selling a car. If the dealer refuses to work with you Jul 27, 2021 · Any necessary therapy or rehab bills, such as physical therapy costs. Decide whether you would like the Bureau of Automotive Repairs to mail the investigation documents to the court ($15) or have the investigator attend the hearing ($275). If you are a business suing a car dealership, you can sue for a maximum of $6,250. A person may sue a mechanic even if there is no accident. But the memory still troubles Rodgers, who says he suffers from post-traumatic stress and is suing the dealership Feb 29, 2024 · The dealership kept my car for over 8 months, I want to terminate my contract, Need them to pay me back for the months my car was sitting there, also , when I was told by the GM to pick it up and we can still continue the lawsuit , he told me he had put a new battery because of the car sitting there for over 8 months, I was scared to death driving on the H-5 the electrical lights came on , I . Improper part replacement. It may be difficult to prove that those items caused the accident. Regardless, you could still recover your actual damages and force them to rescind the transaction where you return the car for your money back. In some cases, your case will end here because the misrepresentation was unintentional; the dealer will refund or replace the vehicle, resolving the problem. The Center for Auto Safety is the nation’s premier independent, member driven, non-profit consumer advocacy organization dedicated to improving vehicle safety, quality, and fuel economy on behalf of all drivers, passengers, and pedestrians. This law is called the dangerous instrumentality doctrine. For example, a car owner may sue a mechanic for performing unauthorized or unnecessary repairs, providing false or misleading payment estimates, or for breach of warranty. Chicago Lawn, IL 60629. And it could also get him into court. So, the answer is you can sue, but you Oct 5, 2021 · For example, a consumer in Chatham County, Georgia sued and won against a Cadillac / Pontiac dealer who allegedly ruined their car’s engine. It’s best to have a personal injury lawyer guide you through the process. So those are your problems right away. If their negligence causes you to have an accident, you may be facing even worse Nov 1, 2023 · Traction control sensor, ABS sensor, airbag and many more sensors on the dash were on. Apr 24, 2020 · Mirman, Markovits & Landau, P. Apr 23, 2024 · A Costa Mesa man is suing an Orange County car dealership after a paperwork mishap resulted in the high school athletic trainer being detained at gunpoint, according to the lawsuit. If the negligence is deemed "willful," then you would be entitled to twice your damages, plus your costs and attorney fees. Its going to cost $10,000+ to fix. 2d 367, 368-69 (1990). By suing in small claims you are agreeing to waive any amount over the maximum amount The answer depends on whether you can prove the dealer or the manufacturer should be held legally liable for committing one or more acts of negligence. If (if!) the manufacturer refuses to replace the engine under the warranty, then you would have no choice but to sue the dealer. Lying to customers might not make a car dealer's nose grow long, but it can cause his reputation to go south. When the car entered the wash, it rolled off of the conveyor, the door swung open and got caught on the wall of the wash, the door bent all of the way forward and dragged down the wall. us. With complex legal proceedings, having an experienced advocate is key to a favorable outcome. First and foremost, mechanics must do Jan 3, 2022 · According to FindLaw, there are two basic categories of misrepresentation that you can sue a car dealership for. 579, 579-80, 394 S. The determination of fair compensation in car dealership negligence cases typically involves examining actual monetary damages, such as repair costs and the diminished value of the vehicle. And the critical part of legal claim here is establishing that these actions fell below what any reasonable person would consider reasonable. Our Rating is calculated using information the lawyer has included on their profile in addition to the information we collect from state bar associations and other organizations that license legal professionals. When I bring my car in my car is at 84,379 and I receive my car back at 84,428. However, that vehicle will be less safe in a crash. Can I sue a car dealership for employee negligence after an employee/reg sex off was arrested & charged unlawful sexual contact? I went to a used car dealership searching for a car to buy. In a single sentence, summarise your dispute with the dealer. You may be entitled to a lemon law buyback compensation reimbursement. If a mechanic provides defective mechanic work, a person might sue them for breach of contract or possibly breach of warranty if the Aug 1, 2017 · Federal law prohibits vehicle dealers from misrepresenting either the mechanical condition of the car or the terms of a warranty. If they still refuse to make it right, involve the corporate entity. If customers can prove that the dealership broke the standard of care owed to them, they can sue for negligence. Sep 15, 2021 · When suing someone for negligence, such as a car dealership, you will need to prove all of the following four elements: Duty: Duty refers to the responsibility one person owes to another. A lawyer will cost 5k retainer to start, and will not Settlement. How Can a Sale Contract Apr 26, 2022 · Can I sue car dealership for negligence ? × Avvo Rating. In June 2021 The dealer divides the deposit into multiple cheques. They repaired this issue and 4-6 days later my car starts having issues. Contact the dealer to express your concerns. Rollover accidents resulting Jan 16, 2023 · The Dealership Has Violated California’s Lemon Law. A Costa Mesa man is suing an Orange County car dealership after a paperwork mishap resulted in the high school athletic trainer being detained at gunpoint, according to the lawsuit. Backus Cadillac-Pontiac v. This comprehensive guide will empower you to hold deceitful dealers accountable. But I guarantee you they will be suspicious, blame you for not stopping (contributory negligence), and be talking about putting a used engine in your car if they are willing to do Jan 12, 2018 · A car owner is strictly vicariously liable if the driver’s negligence causes your damages in a Florida crash. Chicago Ridge, IL 60415. I am now unable to drive a car that I make $345/mo payments on due to the car dealerships negligence. (212) 227-4000. Conclusion. You can sue anyone for anything, but you must prove your claim to succeed. Chicago HTS, IL 60411. Christensen v. You can sue. C. (This may not be the same place you live) Dec 7, 2022 · Discuss the details with your attorney to make sure you have a case. Negligence is the failure to exercise due care (that degree of care that a reasonable auto dealership would have exercised under the same or similar circumstances to prevent foreseeable harm). za bx fq hu gt nf ws ae ms km