I got B+’s to A’s throughout high school. You don’t need a crazy application to get in, but you need a compelling reason why you want to do CS beyond thinking it’s cool. I think it is 45 credits. I was waitlisted for BU GPN and CMU Biological Sciences but rejected. As such, UWaterloo comes to mind. Background Info - Accepted into UW Madison College of Letters & Science for Computer Science as my anticipated major for fall 2020. 4th saying I’d gotten in. The PhD probably won't pay off monetarily, but you probably won't end up losing that much either, so it may be worth it if it'll let you enjoy your life more. BME is a sub field of bioE. I've interviewed 2 PoI recently. However, VT CS isn't as good as UW ECE at least It also wouldn't count much if you decided you wanted to continue to a PhD. Here are the cons that I can think of (pretty minor imo): Since some CS classes can be rigorous, it is generally advised not to take more than 2 CS classes per quarter. If you want to do research, you should do it because there is more to life than money. Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Also, UW runs on a quarter system, so that might affect There deadline is late and as per the pattern over the years, yes. He needs to do a certain number of credits after high school to be considered a transfer student. I have a PhD offer from the UW-Madison CS Department. I see that a lot of admits seem to have been sent out from the number of votes here and I read somewhere that the class size is around 40-50. UCLA ms cs offered me no funding but I really like LA and UCLA has a better name than UW Madison. I am an incoming CS PhD too, and I think the only thing that really matter is your advisor. Tier 2: CalTech, Cornell, UT Austin, Michigan Ann Arbor, UIUC, U of Washington, GaTech. To my bosses, grades doesn't matter, as long as I pass and finally graduate, and can apply myself at work. r/gradadmissions. Rejected from University of Washington CS PhD program. • 2 min. My master's is in CS and I applied to and am planning on applying to CS PhD programs as well. If your grades have increased substantially over undergrad, this is really easy to explain in a SoP or a rec letter and a low overall GPA isn't an issue. I have two admits for PhD (Fall 2023) CS from Virginia Tech and ECE from UW Madison. I got the acceptance mail for UW Madison for the PhD program in Computer Science which I had applied to. Hello badgers! I have not committed but will most likely attend. These are "CS backup" majors after all. Let me explain. I'm glad I tried 😊 congrats to everyone who got in! 2. 9/4. This subreddit is for anyone who is Costs per head. I would say I’m around average at cs at my school. 16 votes, 35 comments. I'm super confused. I wonder if anyone know anything that Computer Sciences. Allen School offers our 300 full-time graduate students a collegial and supportive learning environment; research opportunities of the highest quality; and the chance to collaborate with entrepreneurial faculty who are recognized leaders in their fields. Works out to $34,140 per year. Sort by: Add a Comment. I have good connections with professors here and guranteed funding for my PhD. Academics. That answer isn't wrong, but it isn't right either. 8 from a pretty good school, my GRE scores were solid (780 math, 650ish verbal), and I think my recommendations were good, but if you want in to grad school it helps a lot to have some big research project or publications. It has a great reputation. Post any questions you have, there are lots of redditors with admissions knowledge waiting to help. creating this thread to share (anonymously) when people get interviews for A PhD is a whole new lifestyle. Getting into the top PhD programs in the US is becoming super competitive, especially in CS. It will cost you about ~$900-1000 for housing and utilities, but you may be able to get something for a bit less. I came to UW-Madison with a lot of excitement and high expectations, but it's been a letdown in so many ways. UW ECE and Physics Professor Mo Li is leading the UW's contribution to this effort. One happened on last Thursday (ICML ddl) and the other happened on this Friday. NYU Tandon ECE. If your plan is to get a 3. No interview for the master’s program. Transferring from UWB to UWS for CS is going to be basically impossible, if you go to UWB for CS it should be because you are going to graduate from UWB. Sometimes this matches up with the quality of the undergrad in general, sometime it doesn't. Beyond academics, the social aspects of each school are dramatically different. International universities with only 1 person: UBC, UCalgary, IIT Madras, University of Athens, Anna University, EPFL, Korea University, Ecole Polytechnique, CMU-Qatar, Zhejiang University, University of Science and Technology of China, Federal University of Minas Gerais, Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Birla Institute of Technology and Science, Beihang University, IIT Kharagpur, National Officially accepted UCSD's MS in Computer Science offer. 2/4. After my PhD, I intend to join academia or work as a data scientist at big companies. Money is all funneled into the cs grad office from each supervisor. The program supports Toggle search box Toggle navigation Another thing is Cal Tech is a much smaller school than UCSF or UW that has its pros and cons. To meet the needs and career goals of our unique students, we have designed our degree requirements to be quite flexible, particularly at the 400-level. Course Pathways. It’s around 50% but if acceptance rate is something you are predicating choice of school then it’s a slippery slope. Tier 4: Dartmouth, etc. My GPA was a 3. Has anyone heard back from PhD pharmaceutics at the University of Washington Seattle? I interviewed around first week of February, and I haven’t heard back from the department ever since. based on what i've heard, the value of a data science undergraduate degree is kind of nebulous. If you don't fulfill the compulsory TAship, you'll forfeit about $4000 of your funding As a PhD candidate you are also more competitive than MS student in the job market especially in some research job. Speaking as a UW Bothell student, and knowing how much people struggle to get interviews here in comparison to UW Seattle, there isn't a chance in hell that UW Bothell's CS grads have the same median Computer Sciences. MembersOnline. She/He will be the one that greatly influence your life in the upcoming 4-6 years. Georgia Tech ECE. 3 Share. Is it plausible to work full time and also do my coursework requirements? Does a graduate degree need to be finished in X amount of time to where taking classes only part time wouldn’t work? Any insights would be appreciated. 3. I wonder if anyone know anything that The uw cs webpage for prospective freshman tells you what they’re looking for. It's one of the top programs so getting accepted is hard Consistently ranked among the top computer science and engineering graduate programs in the nation, the Paul G. Highly regarded for CS afaik. Allen School BS/MS students earn a master's degree in approximately one year of courses beyond standard bachelor's requirements. OP, feel free to message me if you want to bounce ideas off someone a few years ahead of you, parenting-wise. Members Online Rejected by every school with a 3. I got in to both the robotics and CS programs, largely because of my undergraduate research. . Completed high school in 3 years. That being said, it’s not a guarantee and UWB has already offered you a chance to study CS and get a UW CS . The short answer is that it depends. Just short information regarding if and when admits have come out for a I'm posting this because people on this reddit make it seem like it's impossible to get accepted into CS as a current UW student, which has dissuaded a lot of people I know from even trying. This question largely depends on what you want to do post grad. 36K subscribers in the UWMadison community. I would recommend getting a spot in a shared apartment or house. Current stipend is ~25K (+ possible support for research over the summer). Since much of the ranking is behind a paywall, here are the Top 250+ entries (there are a lot of ties throughout as usual): # 1: Carnegie Mellon University. US News recently released its updated 2023 ranking of the Best Undergraduate Computer Science Programs. CS Phd vs Stats Phd. 9. I'm a freshman in this supposedly 'prestigious' CS program at UW-Madison, and it's been nothing but a ADMIN MOD. ago. This subreddit is for anyone who is going through the process of getting into graduate school, and for those who've been there and have advice to give. CMU might also be the best university for Cybersecurity in the nation. Which isn't particularly surprising, since a couple of Stanford professors did their PhDs/postdocs at Cornell, like Jure Leskovec and Stefano Ermon, and a lot of Cornell professors did their phds/postdocs at Stanford. I never compare MS and PhD as they are not even in the same level (unless the MS is funded, which is not MSCV) Anyway, Personal Opinion, all the best to your future career. If you want to transfer to UWS, a WA CC is your best bet. We have one compulsory, semi-randomly assigned TAship each term. It's a lot of low pay and moving every few years and putting up with department politics and the like. Congratulations! I looked on their website saw this, “Pell and Washington College Grants can be prorated for less than full-time attendance (Washington College Grant requires at least 3 credits and Pell Grant requires at least 1 credit). * Maybe Harvard should be in 2 but Harvard's overall reputation carries it. 8-4. -based workforce to design and manufacture chip technology. We’re well established, highly ranked, and our department is regularly singled out for its collaborative spirit. 0), hard math classes, hard English classes, and extra curriculares. The aim is to produce a better version of gradcafe and help reduce students' anxiety by limiting spam posts in the form of fake admits. It just means that you were one of 30 students selected to potentially fill 10 spots. indigogogogogogogo. For example, I want to get a PhD in NLP and work as a quant, so if I had the choice to do it all over again (and can choose CMU), then CMU is a no brainer. WSU, SU, UWB, UWT are the biggest I think. My area of interest is Robotics( Maybe? Not really sure) if it helps. I was originally a CS major, but decided to switch because Stony Brook's AMS program is top 5 in the country and it made more sense in terms of time consideration. Based on the recent INFO cycle, you're looking at around ~25-30% chance of getting in. I've to make a choice based on the University and Department. As such, I am wondering how campus life is in Waterloo The Department of Computer Sciences at UW-Madison is a pioneer in computer science research. Currently a high school senior graduation spring 2020. According to the post, for top 20 universities in the US, only people with at least three first-authored papers at ICML/NeurIPS/ICLR stand a chance, and you'll I have a GRE and TOEFL score that are both within the 98~99% range, so that's not a concern. Since it’s UW admission season, and many soon-to-be college freshmen are looking to study Computer Science (CS), I’d like to give some of my thoughts about I got in direct admit to UW CS. ~$300/mo for food or groceries. So we can assume that all of the admits have been sent out already. I know the Allen school looks for diversity so recounting an experience as a POC in my diversity essay definitely helped imo. For a PhD, if you indeed have to look at rankings (which are imperfect anyway), look at department based rankings. 0. DO NOT come to UW if you want to do CS but are not DA. $1000/mo if you're living in the dorms (Stevens court is graduate + family housing; strongly recommend it + you don't have to have a dining plan nor pay for utilities or internet). I just want to thank you guys for the help and sharing your experiences on this forum. UW-Madison states that ECE grads earn an average salary of $95k with no reported signing bonus figures. Louis. If you're a student- you get an orca pass = free public transportation. The University of Washington is at the forefront of an international effort to innovate the semiconductor industry while building a skilled U. UW Seattle is just much bigger and therefore has bigger class sizes and more majors to choose from. Want to see the results. I was told by the second interviewer that they are close to the decision but still don't have a clear time line. I’ve checked my application status online and emailed the department, but there seems to be no update on my Hi everyone! I’ll be joining the CS department as a graduate student this fall (technically on the MS, will probably switch to PhD though). program is a research-intensive program in which students earn their Master’s and Doctor of Philosophy degrees. Wᴇʟᴄᴏᴍᴇ ᴛᴏ ʀ/SGExᴀᴍs – the largest community on reddit discussing education and student life in Singapore! SGExams is also more than a subreddit - we're a registered nonprofit that organises initiatives supporting students' academics, career guidance, mental health and holistic development, such as webinars and mentorship programmes. The UW Graduate School administers the online application portal and collects an $85, non-refundable application fee for all graduate program applications to UW. Source: my son was admitted as a RS applicant to UW CS. 2022: 30%. I've got to vent some frustration. The last page of the PhD program application directs you to the TouchNet payment portal; after paying you will be directed back to the Graduate School application system to submit your When I applied for Spring 2020, I was finally admitted. Hi there, I will make my final decision soon so I intend to listen to a nice voice from this community. An essay that clearly enumerated how my extracurriculars provided useful professional skills and were relevant to my success in the program. The Paul Allen website just released the internal transfer rates for current UW students into CS as: 2020: 28%. I had zero interviews. This is what I actually take home, after all taxes are accounted for. I have PhD offers from CMU ECE and UW-Madison CS. I'm mainly concerned because its QS ranking is not that great. One term per year, we're expected to do a double TAship and it's at the discretion of the cs grad office when that term is. If you have a significant research experience, they won't even look at your transcript (maybe). Closed • 250 total votes. which got them admitted/rejected. I went from application to acceptance without an interview. CMU Robotics PhD here. Seems like ECE is especially quiet this cycle, and we could all benefit with some updates on which universities have given out admits (or rejects) for MS and PhD programs. I have been accepted into the College of Letters and Science. Engineering. I was also rejected, without interview, from Harvard, UCSF, UCSD, Princeton, Columbia, NYU, UW, MIT, and CMU/Pitt PNC. This subreddit is for all graduate school admission results and related discussion. JHU has a huge BME department and it is ranked #1. I think I got accepted because of strength in STEM subjects especially math, physics, and CS, a leadership position, awards in STEM, and service to my community. Hi, I'm interested in applying to their phd To specify my GPAs and provide more background information, my undergrad GPA is around 3. The biggest key here (and, any PhD program) is to make sure that there are faculty working in areas in which you are interested! source: I'm CS dept. PhD Pharmaceutics at UW. Did AP computer science with a 4. Also, I'm For PhD programs in neuroscience, I was admitted to Stony Brook University, the University of Oregon, and the BBS neuro program at BU. CSE is an ever-growing field, and a CSE degree provides an amazing breadth of opportunities. Any updates on the PhD results for computer science at the University of Washington? Been waiting for 2 months now 🥲. 1. 0 and my master's GPA is around 3. Please remember to follow the rules of posting within megathreads, which can be I'm sorry to say but chances are you aren't getting in. Jun 1, 2022 · The 2021-'22 cohort of the Paul G. To learn more about your intended program, see their website. Building your own prestige while in graduate school is important. All 3 schools will provide a decent CS education and will check the degree box on your resume. I’ve been accepted to an engineering PhD program at UW and I’m considering attending, but among my options it unfortunately gave me the smallest stipend. The application process for the BS/MS I am still in college, and am working full time as a SWE. A better school can equip for better. This is also a significant financial advantage of UIUC that should not be mistaken. 1-3. Waiting . My husband lives in Virginia. This is what I gathered from browsing r/gradadmissions or r/Machinelearning and also browsing some grad students’ profiles. CS/ECE PhD at UWaterloo. Your best chance right now would be to try to appeal the rejection. Accepted. I hav been in the US for the last four years and I finished an internship at UW Madison recently. •. So, yes it's not a concern, but you need a strong application. It's feasible to do 3 CS classes every quarter once you have the big prereqs out of the way and finish all the CSE courses you need to graduate in 6-7 quarters, but 8-9 quarters is more common. Especially since you are looking at ML/AI/NLP, pretty much impossible without a paper in important journal, I believe. Dining out is $12-$25. I am current UW Madison Undergraduate. Advice. I’d advise finding the PI (s) you want to work with and the niche (s) you want to be in and then choose the school accordingly. Current UW CSE PhD student here. 2. You should definitely go and visit the campuses in person if you can! Michigan. Some of my programs of interest are MIT, UC Berkeley, Harvard, GaTech, CMU, Columbia, and Caltech. Of the schools that accepted me, UCSD was the only one to give me full funding + stipend, so it was However, UIUC advertises that its CS program graduates earn an average salary of $111k with an average signing bonus of $31k. Questions. Besides the ranking and whatever, you’d most likely enjoy the experience in Ann Arbor more than St. "It is not acceptable when only the most academically elite Washington student can gain admission to a computer science program that can prepare them for a great job,” said state Rep. A proven academic record in STEM classes 2. Students may state their stats etc. Tier 3: UCLA, Duke, Brown, Penn, Columbia, Yale, UToronto, etc. perdyozh. CS is a more marketable, proven major with a more stable job Welcome to the University of Washington's Graduate Admission Application! Visit our Admission page for more information about the admissions process. Bothell and Tacoma to an extent has a Community College vibe to them which, imo, makes an easier environment to learn in. Your GPA increased throughout undergrad: It's common to have a rough first year or two in undergrad. Leadership, good grades (3. TIL that the only people in computer science with "great jobs" graduated from this program. My school friend is about to graduate with honors (average 95), but is turned down from multiple job interviews. Let's just say "pretty damn difficult". Rejected. I know this is late, but I figured I’d say this: I heard back from the admissions committee on Feb. We’re transforming the world through computing. This could make VT is a better option for me. I recently read a post somewhere else claiming that CS PhD admissions in the field of ML for top programs at top institutions have become extremely competitive this year. The Allen School’s full-time Ph. Computer Sciences. CS PhD Interview Notif Thread. If you compare a department where people go to grad school at a higher rate, that'll drag down the median. Interesting, considering that I know there's at least 3 doing a Stanford ML PhD from Cornell this year alone. Assuming your second major has some overlap, that might be another 4-6 quarters. Specifically for Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon is absolutely top-tier, and competes very well with Stanford & MIT, and crushes CalTech. Yale GSAS (EE) umich 100%. Applied Math Undergrad. If you're going to join up from out of industry, you'll have to take some shit from the theory gang (until you're one of us). In terms of research, both the labs are quite similar. But if you're looking to go beyond the minimum UPenn CS PhD (NLP) Decisions. Since much of the ranking is behind a paywall, here are the Top 100+ entries (there are a lot of ties throughout as usual): Top 110 CS Programs: # 1: Massachusetts Institute of Technology. On, Wisconsin! UW-Madison is terrible for undergraduate CS and I'm tired of pretending otherwise. A kid from my school 2 years ago applied to UW CS OOS (I live close to the west coast, so Washington isn’t that far away) with a 1570 SAT, lots of AP’s, one of the smartest kids in his The Reddit Law School Admissions Forum. 226K subscribers in the gradadmissions community. Addtionally, if your aim is to continue working towards a faculty position scientists who work in institutions that are denser in their given area of expertise tend to create higher impact work. I don't know specific numbers since I'm not from the US and my school grades on a 4. Firstly, Caltech is a significantly smaller school, and your whole cohort in CS at 'tech will be about the size of a single smaller classroom at UW, and your whole class at 'tech about the size of an intro CS lecture at UW. The curriculum there is very rigorous too, and the students in CS are so competitive that you have to devote a lot more time to school than most people do. In general, if you like engineering/CS, it's good to go to a school where the graduate program is solid. The trad MS program will care about How is the CS program at UW Madison? Academics. My Bachelor's in CS in 2013 from India. chair @ GWU (DM me if you'd like to connect by Zoom/e-mail. Join a University of Washington Paid Research Study ($80-$100) The Center of Neuroscience, Neuroendocrinology & Clinical Translation (CoNNeCT Lab), located within the Department of Psychology at the University of Washington, invites you to participate in a paid study ($80-$100) focused on the role of oxytocin in social learning. University of Washington-Bothell Campus 212 $92,000 I'm wondering if they're grouping satellite campuses together with their main campuses. Like someone else mentioned, there are two different masters programs - the PMP is a coursework based program and does not guarantee funding, and the trad MS is a program with more research opportunities and funding. 5 scale. I believe that there were two major factors that led to my admission. Reply. A studio will be closer to $1200+. Engineering PhD at the University of Washington in Seattle. I was accepted to UW Madison’s CS PhD program last week with all the standard guarantee funding clauses. Allen School of Computer Science and Engineering's Startup Program flashes "W" signs for the UW. Cyber patriots from 8th - 11th. On a more serious note, your SOP needs to be spot on. CMU is known for CS but I got an admit from the ECE department. Stanford University. 28. Rice - $145,246 University of Chicago - $142,172 UC Irvine - $86,654. I would recommend taking a full fledged masters unless you just want a pay bump at work. Join us Here is what my advisor has said about common GPA situations when applying for CS PhDs. The best place on Reddit for admissions advice. Hello, I'm currently a sophomore at a pretty well regarded (T5 level) CS institution in the States, and am currently looking into potentially doing a PhD in infosec/crypto/networks at a pretty well regarded institution. That being said, INFO cares much less about grades so don't worry too much about that. Currently, I'm a junior in an AMS (Applied Math and Stats) program at Stony Brook. CS degree is not the hardest segree, but it is also not the easy one. Since the decision dates for fall 2024 applications are approaching, this post can consolidate the discussion pertaining to ECE/EE grad school in the US. I have not verified this, but I would assume the practical result of this would be that JHU offers more BME courses than Stanford. CMU is way more prestigious than UW in anything outside of software engineering and if you put in the grind for it you'll open for UW cs you have to get into L&S and then take Calc 2 and CS 300 and the you fill out a Google form and declare. Yes that might definitely help put things in perspective. Whereas, I got an admit from the CS department at UW-Madison. Biological Sciences. 8-3. 2021: 30%. I also got a 4 on the AP CSA exam (I wasn’t super confident on the mcq Hi, I wonder if anyone know any information about UW CS PhD admission decision. For example, you might receive half of your normal Pell Grant for 6-8 credits of enrollment. It also sounded like they already decided on who to admit. I agree that maybe all the admits are sent out. This was a difficult cycle, and I was only accepted to 5 out of the 16 grad schools I applied for. Consistently ranked among the top computer science and engineering graduate programs in the nation, we offer a collegial and supportive learning environment, research opportunities of the highest Offer comparison: Yale Biostat PhD and UW CS PhD. Unfortunately, Washington's choices for a cse-related full-masters degree are pretty limited. That works out to about $2300/month. The wisdom I've heard says that a great GRE score won't get you into grad school, but a bad GRE score can keep you out. Discussion. If you have prior research experience, it will trump your GPA. ) edit: typo. Would anyone happen to know how CS PhD admissions work at UW Madison Hi, I wonder if anyone know any information about UW CS PhD admission decision. Living on a PhD stipend in Seattle. 8. I’m applying for PhD in CS as well as MS in related disciplines (ECE). The chances of getting into CS at UW are slim and become even slimmer when you're trying to apply to the school while inside the college. However, I am a bit confused about how to interpret the email. Drew Hansen, former chair of the House Higher Education Committee. It’s 30k, or about 28k after taxes if I did things correctly. My research interests are machine learning and computational biology. However, I haven’t heard anything from the advisor I’d like to work with most at UW. The university offers 250 undergraduate and graduate degree programs in more than 100 fields of study in its eight colleges and schools along with more than 180,000 alumni across the state and around the world. 898 gpa (full ib, couple A minuses and i got Bs in Spanish lol) Internship at after school program teaching kids about robotics. 0, maybe do an internship after your junior year, and then walk into $60k a year when you graduate then the difference will be negligible. I think since you are not sure who your advisor would be, you should choose SD where there is a larger department with more faculty for you to explore. PSA: If you are dead set on studying Computer Science at UW and not directly admitted to the major, DO NOT COME HERE. ”. the biggest hurdle to getting a DS job probably wouldn't be having a certificate instead of a BS, but not having nearly enough experience with statistical modeling, machine learning, so on. Calc II at Gonzaga my third year. Don't have data for ACMS but I can't imagine it is any better. University of Washington Regular Decision Megathread. * Maybe CalTech should be in 1 but CS is not their strongest subject AFAIK. I will go first! Applied (PhD): Purdue ECE. ADMIN MOD. D. Letters of rec matter the most, followed by your personal statements CS Phd vs Stats Phd : r/cscareerquestions. Princeton ECE. The main confounding factor here is the 3-year measure. Check out the sidebar for intro guides. 1. Definitely yes for CS, other person doesn’t know what they’re talking about. My laptop is about 5 years old so looking to get a new one before starting, and was wondering if anyone in CS had recommendations for what to get? The Reddit Law School Admissions Forum. Most students are admitted after finishing 300-level requirements in their junior year so they can plan their CSE senior and graduate requirements as a coherent two-year plan. Thanks for any replies. Individual programs may have additional requirements beyond the Graduate School's minimum admission requirements, Policy 3. Also the alumni network at Michigan is probably exponentially larger. Stanford offers bioE, not BME. UW Madison Computer Science (2020) Future Badger. Our award-winning faculty work closely with graduate students, conducting bold research to achieve excellence in computer science. You will have to live on a budget and not have the same things as many adults do in Seattle. 9 and 4 years of job/internship experience r/ApplyingToCollege is the premier forum for college admissions questions, advice, and discussions, from college essays and scholarships to college list help and application advice, career guidance, and more. UWM PhD is excellent, man. Anyone heard back (or knows when we can expect to hear back) from the NLP group at UPenn? I talked with the NLP profs in person few weeks ago and they are not recruiting much this season maybe like 1-2. Because of the smaller class sizes you get to ask more questions if needed. Reply reply. Personally I see little to no cons so far. If you were accepted into the CS major in other colleges I'd recommend going there. # 2: This subreddit is for anyone who is going through the process of getting into graduate school, and for those who've been there and have advice to give. It's not Stanford/CMU, but it's up there. UPWARDS for the Future. Calc BC 2nd year. For me this is what I think got me in: 3. Voting closed 1 year ago. $2845 is deposited into my bank account once per month. Practical-Pea-916. I had mailed the PI before applying asking for a short meeting to discuss his projects, but at that time he just told me The uw cs webpage for prospective freshman tells you what they’re looking for. US News recently released its updated 2024 ranking of the Best Undergraduate Computer Science Programs. S. But UW-Madison is one of the best in the country. That being said, a lot of “top” researchers are actually piss poor mentors so it really depends. khcrivtuwxylhtspvzly